Enginetech camshafts - are they OK? (2024)

Hello everyone,

I plan to rebuild my 5.4 3V Triton Ford engine, and I'm looking for some knowledge/help, that's how I found your forum. Although it has only ~100k miles, my engine burns oil like crazy (about 3,5qts/1000 miles). Moreover, while I was replacing the timing set it occurred that both camshafts are scored on their journals, so I must replace them.

Anyway, I'm slowly collecting all the parts needed, and it's time for the camshafts. I wanted to buy OEM ones, but I can't find an online store with affordable international shipping. So I've looked around and found Enginetech camshafts available locally. Buying them would save me some hundreds of dollars on shipping cost, but I'm a little bit concerned about the quality. I want this engine to be as reliable as possible after the rebuild. I don't race it, it is all stock, just a daily driver. Is anybody familiar with this brand, used their camshafts and can share an opinion about them? Is it worth installing them?

Part numbers are: ENGINETECH ES1585 / ENGINETECH ES1584

Cheers,

MC

MC775 wrote:Moreover, while I was replacing the timing set it occurred that both camshafts are scored on their journals, so I must replace them

No expert, but don't those engines OE run the cams directly in the Alum head material, no 'inserts' as such ?

If so how bad are the caps/towers ?

If the heads are overly worn you either need to get someone to machine them for inserts, or replace the whole assembly ..... then maybe think about just replacing the cams

At the other end of the scale, if the lobes are ok, is polish everything up, measure all the clearances, and if all acceptable take a punt ...... JMO

but don't those engines OE run the cams directly in the Alum head material, no 'inserts' as such ?

Yes, you're right, cams work directly on "cam towers", no inserts/bearings. They're scored pretty badly (photos), and I know I must machine them before putting new camshafts. I hope it will be possible to grind/polish cam towers and cam caps, I would like to avoid putting an inserts.

At the other end of the scale, if the lobes are ok, is polish everything up, measure all the clearances, and if all acceptable take a punt ...... JMO

I drive it like that since some months, I just try to avoid higher RPM's. Lobes are fine, but journals... you can see in the pictures. I would like to make this engine reliable, so I think new camshafts are a must.

You have three options, essentially .....

Align bore the heads for shell inserts / put new cams in OR replace the heads as an assembly

Take a shave off the cap, align bore to a nominally smaller diameter* than OE and have the cam journals reduced in a cylindrical grinder to correct clearance

Polish it all up and take a punt

It's all just a question of the machine access you have vs cost

[* I very much doubt taking, say, five thou out of the installed height of the cam is going to have much effect on the hyd lifters or chains]

Take a shave off the cap, align bore to a nominally smaller diameter* than OE and have the cam journals reduced in a cylindrical grinder to correct clearance

I think machinist will take a shave off the cam towers and caps and line bore them for a new camshafts. I have a very experienced machine shop close to me, if it is doable they will handle it. However I need a new camshaft set, machinist states that those cams are "assembled" type camshafts and their journals can't be reduced/resurfaced.

MC775 wrote:I think machinist will take a shave off the cam towers and caps and line bore them for a new camshafts

Personally I wouldn't touch the towers ..... it's not like it has to be 'pretty' for a customer

However I need a new camshaft set, machinist states that those cams are "assembled" type camshafts and their journals can't be reduced/resurfaced

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, not with the probable amount you'd need to take off for an effective plateaued surface ...... it's not like it has to be 'pretty' for a customer

The whole thing is a cheap glorified 'codge', but should give reasonable service if approached with care

The Enginetech cams are good.

If the head isn't too bad, we nip the caps and align bore the head.

If it's really bad, and we want to reuse the cams, turn the journals .010" and bore the head tunnels for oversize bearing inserts.

Most rebuilders these days just buy new heads and new cams.

Thank you for the answers. I'll probably use a new Enginetech camshafts, it will save me a lot of money for the shipping.

When it comes to the cam towers and caps I'll let it for machinist to decide what to do. I've found a set of Dura-Bond cam bearings for those heads, but it makes me think how they are supposed to hold there? Should I grind a notch in the caps/towers to prevent them from falling out?

https://www.ebay.com/p/115104605

MC775 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:42 amWhen it comes to the cam towers and caps I'll let it for machinist to decide what to do. I've found a set of Dura-Bond cam bearings for those heads, but it makes me think how they are supposed to hold there? Should I grind a notch in the caps/towers to prevent them from falling out?

The tang/notch is present in older main and rod bearings so hung-over assemblers get them in the right place. Most engines designed this century are assembled by robots and the bearings don't have tangs. Anyway, it's the crush, not the tangs which locks bearings in place.

Same but different, in a hundred years of cast iron cams, if anything was going to fail, it was always the nose of the lobes which went away. Today, it's common to see a billet steel cam or even a cast powdered lobe and bearing journal cam with the lobes still perfect and the bearing journals worn or scored.

PackardV8 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:06 pm]The tang/notch is present in older main and rod bearings so hung-over assemblers get them in the right place. Most engines designed this century are assembled by robots and the bearings don't have tangs. Anyway, it's the crush, not the tangs which locks bearings in place.

Same but different, in a hundred years of cast iron cams, if anything was going to fail, it was always the nose of the lobes which went away. Today, it's common to see a billet steel cam or even a cast powdered lobe and bearing journal cam with the lobes still perfect and the bearing journals worn or scored.

Some people still won't believe the truth of that matter.

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Specialty engine building at its finest.

The modular cams in the 'Modular' Ford engines have hard sintered lobes on a relatively ductile, ie soft, tubular core

The lobes are assembled, a ball is broached through the tube to 'fix' the lobes on the serrations

Hard lobes necessary for roller followers, soft journals because the tube can't be too 'hard' as the broaching would split it

Aluminium alloys that have bearing journals cut directly into the parent metal (no inserts) have to be relatively high Silicon to not gall in operation, so essentially the cam journal rides on the hard Si crystals in the alloy

Hard Si crystals, ductile shafts = worn cam journals, with often good lobes

BCjohnny wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:49 pmHard lobes necessary for roller followers, soft journals because the tube can't be too 'hard' as the broaching would split it

Why couldn't the journals be flame or induction hardened after the cam is assembled?

Cost, I guess ...... every penny counts, as long as it survives warranty

My understanding is the shafts are finish machined before the lobes are pressed on, but I'm happy to be corrected

Wait 'til you get to see the latest iteration of this 'technology' ...... the Romeo 2.0 diesel ...... the tubular shafts are assembled into the cam carrier / top cover with the lobes & pulleys

No disassembly possible ....... you have to replace the entire assembly

Wetflow wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:16 pmWhy couldn't the journals be flame or induction hardened after the cam is assembled?

The cam lobes and bearing journals are cast powdered metal with an internal serration to grab the core tube when it is expanded into them.

It's nice to see so many posts from knowledgeable people, I can learn something more.

PackardV8 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:06 pmThe tang/notch is present in older main and rod bearings so hung-over assemblers get them in the right place. Most engines designed this century are assembled by robots and the bearings don't have tangs. Anyway, it's the crush, not the tangs which locks bearings in place.

This engine has no camshaft bearings from the factory, so I wonder if it is OK to buy aftermarket ones and just torque them without any tangs/notches. I have some bad experiences with "pressed in" type bearings, I remember them failing in almost all Mercedes 722.6 transmissions produced before '00s. As I remember Mercedes added a tangs to those bearings after '99 to solve the problem.

BCjohnny wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:49 pmThe modular cams in the 'Modular' Ford engines have hard sintered lobes on a relatively ductile, ie soft, tubular core

The lobes are assembled, a ball is broached through the tube to 'fix' the lobes on the serrations

Hard lobes necessary for roller followers, soft journals because the tube can't be too 'hard' as the broaching would split it

Aluminium alloys that have bearing journals cut directly into the parent metal (no inserts) have to be relatively high Silicon to not gall in operation, so essentially the cam journal rides on the hard Si crystals in the alloy

Hard Si crystals, ductile shafts = worn cam journals, with often good lobes

Nice piece of knowledge. A lot of people say that cam towers in those modular engines have too wide oil galleys what results in a lower oil pressure on camshaft journals. In some conditions the oil pressure might be too low to lubricate the rotating journal, which causes scoring. Poor oil pressure + ductile shafts, now I know why aftermarket high volume oil pumps are so recommended for those engines.